Ancient Macedonians
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Post from iGENEA to 22.08.2010 13:08:31
Dear Staccato,
our analysis of origins is always based on the latest scientific data and we constantly improve our methods.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Staccato to 15.08.2010 20:08:31
Roman Scholz quote:"we have removed these statistics from our website because the data they where based on is some years old and we decided not to update these statistics.
Therefore there might be some mistakes in it, based on insufficient data because some years ago the scientific reasearch was not as good as today but as we dont update these statistics any more i can not tell you the percentages based on todays scientific knowledge."
Dear Roman,
Does that mean that when i do a Igenea test that the "Macedonian" part, is also based on these old statistics and techniques, and not on the present scientific knowledge??
Post from iGENEA to 18.07.2010 18:07:58
Dear Basil,
whatever outcom such a new research would have, there would be people who are not pleased with it and the discussion would go on, maybe turn into a political argument and therefore we are not planning to update and publish the statistics.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Basil to 17.07.2010 07:07:24
Well, I suggest iGENEA to update them (the statistics on Macedonians and others) in order to plakate these dispute!
With that you'll sedate once for all the forum-mongers, which will have their data to lick on..
Post from iGENEA to 13.07.2010 12:07:35
Hello Velko,
we have removed these statistics from our website because the data they where based on is some years old and we decided not to update these statistics.
Therefore there might be some mistakes in it, based on insufficient data because some years ago the scientific reasearch was not as good as today but as we dont update these statistics any more i can not tell you the percentages based on todays scientific knowledge.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Velko to 10.07.2010 00:07:42
Hallo Mr Scholz
I am Bulgarian and I would have been interested in the services you provide. However I just cannot imaging that your results in terms of matching the people\'s profile to ancient tribe has something to do with the truth. Does the matching for Bulgaria: 49%Thraker, 11%macedonian, 15%slavs, 15 %hellenen, 5% pheonician; and for Macedonia: 30%macedonian; 10% illyrian; 15% hellenen, 5%phoenician, 20% germanic, 5% hunnen, 15% slavs; comes from your results? If yes, then I just cannot match them with the Balcan history. And also from the logic, the reults do not match. Example: for Macedonia 0%Thraker - at the same time 49% for Bulgaria and 18% for Albania, but 0% for Macedonia, which is inbetween. 2nd I do not believe the number 30%macedonian for Macedonia. How have you deternived that is really ancient Macedonian and not another ancient tribe ? 3rd looking at Bulgarians 95% are 49%Thraker, 11%macedonian, 15%slavs, 15 %hellenen, 5% pheonician. Which would mean that less than 5% of today\'s Bulgarians have come to Bulgaria after 6th century, incl. the proto Bulgarins themselves. I juts cannot believe they have been so few. So in summary I would be interested that you explain your methodology of ding those matches. At the moment they look to me as pure speculations. Thanks in advance
Post from iGENEA to 27.05.2010 16:05:01
Hi Danny K.
i`m not frustrated but indeed, the high activity over this topic was surprising.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Danny K. to 27.05.2010 07:05:18
Roman, are you frustrated with getting so many regarding this issue? As a Macedonian, it is all very interesting to me. But as an American, I can't help but be amused by some of the things that are posted here. So much activity over a few million people ... lol
Post from iGENEA to 24.05.2010 16:05:29
Hi Nick,
the studies we use were published in reliable scientific papers. As i did not perform the research myself i do not know which papers referred to Macedonians but we only use credible sources.
I know you and others want to know more about that and i hope i will find time to look up all old and new sources in order to perform a new research that will bring forth results that can be presented here.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Nick to 20.05.2010 02:05:52
"we do not publish our sources at the moment, but as far as i know the DNA of Phillip & Olympia has not been extracted yet.
We can not differ between single ancient greel states, because these people probably were to related to each other"
Hi Roman,
If u don't publish sources, can u at least confirm that the ancient sample used was in fact extracted from an Ancient Macedonian source???
Post from iGENEA to 18.05.2010 11:05:39
Hi Nick,
we do not publish our sources at the moment, but as far as i know the DNA of Phillip & Olympia has not been extracted yet.
We can not differ between single ancient greel states, because these people probably were to related to each other.
Hi Natalya,
we do not release such numbers any more because it takes to much time to review all the data. Because of that we also do not plan to publish such data again in the near future. If we decide to do that again we can also show the number of tested people and more details about the sources.
Up to now we had to rely on studies published by other sicentist but had not the possibility to do our own research.
"If your organization wants to release data regarding nations perhaps you should not charge these outrageous sums and do real research that is non biased (i.e. getting paid by a government to test certain parts of the population."
We are a private company and offer a certain service to our costumers. Of course we could do our own research but it is too expensive for us and the benefit for our customers would not be big enough.
If we could find governments or other organizations that like to test certain population we would use every opportunity to work together with them. Maybe we try to develop such an arrangement some time.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Natalya to 17.05.2010 12:05:48
This service may be valuable to individuals doing their own personal family line research - but the numbers you are releasing regarding nations should include how many people were tested and from what regions. I found it highly curious that you were very particular with the number of Macedonians from Greece (even provided two numbers!) If your organization wants to release data regarding nations perhaps you should not charge these outrageous sums and do real research that is non biased (i.e. getting paid by a government to test certain parts of the population. Will you also be providing numbers for Turkey? I find it highly curious that you would not - all these areas did at one point have much to do with the Ottoman empire.
Post from Nick to 17.05.2010 07:05:18
Hi Roman, I would really like to know 2 things. 1). What Ancient Macedonian sample was used to compare & get these results. Was the sample used by iGenea from the most famous Ancient Macedonian bones that exist? that being of Phillip II & Olympia? (Alexanders parents) & 2). Has Ancient Macedonian DNA been compared to other Ancient Greek state\'s DNA such as Spartan, Thessalian, Corinthian, Attican, Ionian, Doric, etc
Post from iGENEA to 14.05.2010 11:05:47
I will search information about that, but it will take some time.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Danny K. to 14.05.2010 04:05:47
Roman, I would appreciate it if you could check if there is any data regarding distribution and which parts of Macedonia are where one can find natives with DNA most consistent with Ancient Macedonians. I am also wondering if this had anything to do with the Via Egnatia highway.
I can only judge from my experience in the United States (which might not be much), but the assumption about people living in the mountainous and rural areas tends to ring true even in American society. Often times people migrate out of the mountainous areas for work, but very few people migrate there because of economic conditions (areas with rough terrain are generally backward). Furthermore, even among those who migrate out of mountainous areas, a good number of them return once their working days are over. Of course we will never know this, but it would be interesting to know if the same migration patterns exist.
Post from iGENEA to 13.05.2010 08:05:36
Hi Danny K.
1. We have indeed not much customers from Macedonia, the price may be a main reason for that.
But we always have to distinguish between customers and studies. Of course we can draw some conclusions from our costumers data but this data is not always representative for a country, in contrast to scientific studies which make sure to be representative for a certain country or region.
2. If you want to get the service of iGenea and want to be our customer you usually are required to send the kit to iGenea because you get your Kit-No. from us.
3. At the moment i can not tell you exactly if your assumption is true but i will check this.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Danny K. to 12.05.2010 03:05:27
In other materials I read something to the effect that "Current studies assume that the Macedonians (FYROM residents) from mountainous regions" retain most of the DNA from the ancients. I know you don't want to get into the political aspects of these things, but anthropologically this is amazing. The simple math for everyone going back to 325 BC means that each of us had over 8 million ancestors (92 generations). To retain similar genetic attributes and to be able to scientifically detect them is simply amazing.
I have three questions for iGenea:
1. Have many Macedonians given DNA samples. The reason I ask is because the kit is rather pricey and I would think it is more within the budget of members of the Western diaspora than for natives of Macedonia.
2. For someone living in the USA would it be better to send a sample to iGenea or to Texas?
3. Which mountain regions and parts of Macedonia do you refer to, or is this just an assumption on your part? I would assume southwestern Macedonia (from Ohrid to Bitola) has a lot of people who can claim the same genetic material as the ancients or am I mistaken?
Post from iGENEA to 02.05.2010 09:05:54
Hi Macedonian,
i know this discussion is going on and on but please try to understand the purpose of iGeneas services. We want to help our costumers with their genealogical research and not get involved into political controversies all the time.
"This of course begs the question why did Igenia (who claim to be neutral) not also separate out Spartan, Athenians, Mycenaean, Minoans, and the various other Hellenic states also? (which other reputable genetics institutions have done to track human migrations)"
We did not do that because there probably was no data available. If you have any sources for that please let me know, we are highly interessted in such information because it could help us improve our servicé.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Macedonian to 30.04.2010 09:04:04
I find Igenia\\\'s lack of disclosure rather troubling. No where in their PDF is the word \\\"Macedonian\\\" used (nor the source of their cadavers disclosed) yet they made the highly political decision to separate out \\\"Macedonian\\\" from \\\"Greek\\\".
This of course begs the question why did Igenia (who claim to be neutral) not also separate out Spartan, Athenians, Mycenaean, Minoans, and the various other Hellenic states also? (which other reputable genetics institutions have done to track human migrations)
I would also note even running with Igenia\\\'s numbers 5% macedonian for Greece-with Greece having roughly 8 times the population of 1.4 million self-described \\\"ethnic Macedonians\\\" in FYROM... still equates to substantially more \\\"antic\\\" Macedonians in Greece than in FYROM. Then you throw in 35% Hellene for Greece and versus 15% hellene for FYROM... and the picture looks even bleaker for FYROM\\\'s bold ethnic claims. (based on solely a few genetic markers I would add... not on some absolute scientific definition of race or ethnicity)
Cheers to the former self-identifying Bulgarians who current live in the Kingdom of Paonia.... from the Macedonians who for the last 2200 years have been speaking the language of Macedonians.... Greek.
Post from Makedon to 28.02.2010 15:02:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00e4CQwjWiM&feature=related MACEDONIA CLIP THAT SHOKED GREECE
Albania:
30% Illyrians
15% Phoenician
14% Hellenen
18%Thraker
2% Vikings
20% slavs
Greece:
10% Germanic
10%illyrians
20% slavs
20% phoenician
5% macedonian (in north more than 18%)
35% Hellenen
Bulgaria:
49%Thraker
11%macedonian
15%slavs
15%hellenen
5% pheonician
Macedonia:
30%macedonian
10% illyrian
15% hellenen
5%phoenician
20% germanic
5% hunnen
15% slavs
Bosnia
50% Illyrer
4% Thraker
20% Germanen
6% Hunnen
15% Slawen
15% Kelten
Serbien:
30% Slawen
9% Phonizier
21% Illyrer
14% Kelten
8% Hellenen
2% wikinger
18% Germanen
A antic macedonian genetic profile
exists and has been discovered through the
compariso
n of archaeological funds and persons with m
acedonian roots. These studies enable us to determine the macedonian roots
of a person. We have 30% of macedonians in Macedonia, 20% in
Greece an minorities in Bulgaria and Albania.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uc6If548Mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujBXeEXl-Q
Post from iGENEA to 21.02.2010 10:02:22
Dear Bill,
these figures have been published on the website, but of course have been corrected soon after.
As iGenea decided not to draw up statistics any more i can not tell you current numbers. But you can find statistics at other websites.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Bill to 19.02.2010 11:02:48
Y-haplogroups in Macedonia
I2A 39 %
E1B1B 26 %
R1A 20 %
J2 15 %
R1B 10 %
==============
If you add this up, you get 110%
NICE WORK!!!!
Post from iGENEA to 11.02.2010 14:02:02
Good idea, Macedonian, as long as people send their kit back to Zürich, not Geneva. ;-)
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Macedonian to 11.02.2010 13:02:03
I wrote this in other forum and I think it will fit nicely even here:
The fact that you are punching the keyboard and writing something in the post proofs that you are alive and descend from somewhere, but for sure your first ancestors were from Africa. In order not to be confused any more and do flosculuous comments about your strong genetic roots, do as I did: order test kit from Igenea, scratch your mouth and send the kit back to Geneva. Than wait for the results and enjoy yourself. I do enjoy being Macedonian (not Greek)
Post from Know to 19.01.2010 14:01:28
The 8000 BC in my other post should be 800 BC.
Sorry about that!
Post from Knowing to 19.01.2010 13:01:40
Macedonians before Alexander could not take part in the Olympics because they were considered not Greek. The Olympics had been held for over 200 years by that time. The Macedonian kindom had existed since 8000 BC. So the Greeks, and the officials, had no idea that the Royal house was of Greek origin until about 540 BC when Alexander made the simple claim. The Greeks being knowlebale of all things did not seem to know of simple facts like these. I cannot believe that! So Aleksander may have made the story up just to participate in the Olympics.
Claims like the above, based on circumstential evidence, are easily refuted by reading these same ancient documents.
Post from RealMaceonian to 12.01.2010 10:01:46
the ancient macedonians took part in the olympic games were only pure greeks could take part,long before alexander the great the macedonians were taking part in the olympic games
simple as that,sorry dear slavs from paeonia you are not macedonians and you will never be
Post from Anton to 07.01.2010 03:01:08
ForeverMKD,
Arian clearly considered Macedonians to be Greeks. But it is very easy to cherry-pick lines and take them out of context to make a political point.
It's sad that almost every forum on the internet is used by modern Macedonians of FYROM (ancient Paeonia) who speak a Slavic language to prove that they are related to an ancient tribe to the south of their country in order to justify the right to use the name or to portray an imagined identity.
Do yourself a favor. Get over it!
Post from macedonian girl to 06.01.2010 22:01:51
One replay to all above me. Ancient Macedonians are everywhere. As you know, the kingdom of Alexander the Great, well known as Alexander Macedonian was on 3 continents, Europe, Africa and Asia. On European continent it was today's Balcan. Today, on the Balcan we have more countries, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Greece...Genes of Antic Macedonians are everywhere, somewhere more, somewhere less. There are genes like it in India, Egypt, Armenia...But it was in the past. After that, on the Balcan came Slavs, Huns and what do you think? They said to Ancient Macedonians: "Go ahead...we will live here!". No! They mixed up, married, had children. So we can not tell that Macedonians are direct descedents or Greeks, or someone else...iGenea are right, this is not place for political discussions, but I have to tell something. In the year 1913, there were Balcanian wars, and the teritory known as Ethnic Macedonia was divided between Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece. (Today's region in Greece called Macedonia, it is just the part of Ethnic Macedonia that Greeks took then). Some years later, one man, Josip Broz Tito formed Yugoslavia, including the Macedonian part that Serbia took. After Tito's death, that part became country with own identity and integrity, called Republic of Macedonia (as 162 countris in the world call it). UN accepted the name of this country as Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, (not FYROM or FIROM, whatever). So I want to tell some of the writers above me, call the things as their name is, not as you like them to be.
Genes og Ancient Macedonians are everywhere, you all know for conqures of family of Alexander the Great, the Persian wedding, many wifes that ALexander had, also Phillip...That's all...
Post from Bobi to 30.12.2009 20:12:32
Post from Nicolas to 30.09.2009
Macedonians are Greeks. The modern Macedonians as you know them should actually be called Fyromians and they have no connection with ancient Macedonians at all.
nicolas am macedonian and am no greeks,remember that
Post from ForeverMKD to 29.12.2009 20:12:10
Many will say that the Ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe, but the ancient historian Arrian wrote that there was a "racial rivalry" between the ancient Macedonians and the Greeks.
As we know the people from different race can not be from same nationality. Were the Ancient Macedonians later helenized is a question which on which we can have doubts.
The fact that the Ancient Macedonian DNA is different then the Ancient Greek DNA say that the Ancient Macedonians like Alexander were not Greeks at all.
Post from iGENEA to 20.11.2009 23:11:19
Dear Kristian,
The statistics where based on several resources, because of that i can not tell you exact numbers. Can be a few hundred for small countries and several thousands for bigger countries.
Genetic statistics can change a little bit from time to time when new data is released but all in all there is already enough data to predict the relations for many countries correctly.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Kristian to 20.11.2009 18:11:37
OK,How many examples of DNA you take per country for the resultats?
And i want to ask how much relevant are the resultats?
Post from iGENEA to 15.10.2009 06:10:58
Dear Fred
When DNA gets extracted from ancient specimens the results are usually published, for example in scientific journals. But also samples of modern people can be helpful to reconstruct patterns of antic peoples.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Fred to 14.10.2009 19:10:05
You have not answered other posts where do u get the DNA sample from ancient peoples? Do you sample people across a country. Your FAQs do not answer these simple questions.
Post from Nicolas to 30.09.2009 17:09:31
Macedonians are Greeks. The modern Macedonians as you know them should actually be called Fyromians and they have no connection with ancient Macedonians at all.
Post from gaefahrlich to 04.10.2008 05:10:06
yeah people, stop turning this into a political forum. give us a break. let iGENEA do the work and read the results, draw your own political concusions and smile!
keineantwortemail@gmail.com
Post from iGENEA to 28.09.2008 01:09:02
there is a relationship between bulgarians an macedonian, but also between bulgarian and greek, or between bulgarian and spanish or german.
Please stop to turn all this data to politics aims!! This is a genetic forum and iGENEA analyses primitive tribes!! not actual folks!
Inma Pazos
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from nikola macedonia to 26.09.2008 19:09:27
me and all people who living in macedonia is ancient macedonians but i'm miaks direct descendant ancient macedonian
Post from Rubin to 26.09.2008 10:09:32
Y-haplogroups in Macedonia
I2A 39 %
E1B1B 26 %
R1A 20 %
J2 15 %
R1B 10 %
What represent the Y - Halogroups I2A,E1B1B,R1A,J2,R1B.
Please answered me reply. Thanks.
rubin.krsteski@inbox.com
Post from aleksandar_k3 to 26.09.2008 09:09:22
They come from hell ass
Post from Zoran Kuzev to 25.09.2008 22:09:54
1.WHO ARE ALEXANDAR THE GREAT,AND WHO ARE MACEDONIANS.2.WHO ARE THE GREEKS,AND FROM WHERE THEY COME?
Post from Ancient Macedonian to 25.09.2008 22:09:19
OK now. I don't get it!??! Who are the Ancient Macedonians?
People from Macedonia, or people from Greece? I want an answer from the IGENEA people, not from someone who has no idea!!!